Chat with a UTD Instructor - live chat transcript from 24 Feb 2009

We held the first monthly “Chat with UTD Instructors” last night, and had about 30 people participate. Andrew led a spirited discussion about decompression, the UTD classes, the UTD Expedition card, rebreathers, and more.

What follows is the transcript of the session. There were overlapping questions and some overlapping answers, so it may be a bit challenging to read, but imagine yourself online live with 30 people all firing.

The next date is March 31 at 7:30pm Pacific time. And we may add another chat at a friendlier time for the Europeans.

Enjoy,

Jeff

7:26pmAndrew Georgitsis Hey guys
7:26pmJasonmh Hello
7:27pmDouglas Steding hey Andrew
7:27pmDuane Johnson hello
7:27pmJeff Seckendorf We have Andrew, Jeff, Jeanna, Maciej, Mark is on his way.
7:28pmJeff Seckendorf Questions?
7:28pmDouglas Steding Well, I have one, but I don't want to be the kid in the front of the room waving his hand
7:29pmAndrew Georgitsis (")_(")
7:29pmJeff Seckendorf Yes Doug?
7:29pmDouglas Steding Really?
7:29pmDouglas Steding Me>
7:29pmDouglas Steding Okay, so why the 1:1 setpoint applied to the 25/25 and O2 gases?
7:29pmDouglas Steding Seems confusing to me.
7:30pmDouglas Steding Time over MDL worked fine
7:30pmAndrew Georgitsis Good good let me explain
7:30pmAndrew Georgitsis two ways to skin a cat
7:31pmAndrew Georgitsis first we can look at our Notrox 32 profiels and add o2 to fix issues
7:31pmAndrew Georgitsis or we can use the setpoint of 1:1
7:31pmAndrew Georgitsis the deco outcome is the same
7:32pmAndrew Georgitsis the problem with a 150' dive is rb
7:32pmAndrew Georgitsis the problem with a 100 dive and nitrox 50 is the o2 is too small
7:32pmAndrew Georgitsis so what setpoint do you want to use
7:32pmAndrew Georgitsis pick a strategy
7:32pmAndrew Georgitsis so if I am comfortable diving Nitrox 32 profiles
7:33pmDouglas Steding I know-either strategy yields the same results. It is just that now we have some of us doing time over MDL and the others learning 1:1 with 25/25
7:33pmAndrew Georgitsis and want to extend into deco and use o2 to clean up perfect
7:33pmJeanna Edgerton Doug, I believe the change is due to our "building block" approach
7:34pmJeanna Edgerton learn 1:1 now, easier later
7:34pmAndrew Georgitsis see jeanna is on the ight track
7:34pmAndrew Georgitsis for the recreational gang we teach a table style setpoitn to transistion them from PADI/Naui
7:34pmAndrew Georgitsis so they are familar with a table
7:35pmAndrew Georgitsis We simply start rec divers see a table and then using a set point of 100' for 30min 32%
7:35pmAndrew Georgitsis 5 up and down
7:35pmAndrew Georgitsis of course we then want to transistion to tech/trimix
7:35pmAndrew Georgitsis there we use a setpoint 1:1 and then 1:2
7:35pmAndrew Georgitsis So it is a matter of wht you are comfortable using
7:35pmAndrew Georgitsis they yeild the same results
7:36pmJames Mott I'm just getting started with a guy, teaching the setpoints. It is a bit of a,"leap of faith" getting away from the computer way of thinking.
7:36pmAndrew Georgitsis so 1:1 with o2 is a building block towards technical diver
7:36pmDouglas Steding So, are you guys teaching both approaches?
7:36pmAndrew Georgitsis by the end of technical diver they can use 21/35 25/25 nitrox 50 O2 and a stage
7:36pmAndrew Georgitsis tech 1 & 2 make techncial diver
7:37pmAndrew Georgitsis No not anymore because we took out o2 from helitrox power point
7:37pmAndrew Georgitsis meaning rec 3 is a NDL course./
7:37pmAndrew Georgitsis I might of over taught you gys
7:38pmDouglas Steding probably
7:38pmJeff Seckendorf We'll create a document about this, the 1:1 setpoint, and get it posted in the next week or so
7:38pmDouglas Steding My concern is you now have two sets of gases with 1:1 setpoint, both based on 150:20 and one that could be applied up to 50 feet shallower.
7:39pmRainer jeff, that'd potentially go a long way of getting everyone on the same page. it's annyoing having people with generally similar training doing things differently...
7:39pmAndrew Georgitsis so your suggestion is a set point for a 100'
7:39pmRoger Bly here late... just caught up. so AG, you teach 25/25 at 1:1 with 02 deco.... because 50% is not enough... but rb is a challange?
7:40pmDouglas Steding I dunno. Maybe. I mean, 130 for 30 minutes with a 100' setpoint yields what, like 22 minutes of deco?
7:40pmAndrew Georgitsis yes a 100' -130 range is 25/25
7:40pmDouglas Steding And, 130 for 30 with a 150 setpoint yields like what, 20 minutes of deco?
7:40pmAndrew Georgitsis and beyond NDL is better to carry o2
7:40pmAndrew Georgitsis I really like it for those cave and wrecks dives
7:41pmAndrew Georgitsis a nice long wreck dive on cape brenton in BC will yield better deco with o2 than ntrox 50
7:41pmAndrew Georgitsis especially after a second and thrid dive
7:42pmRoger Bly interesting ... have to run some numbers and try ratio on 25/25 and o2. we do alot of those kinds of dives in the canyons here
7:42pmJeff Seckendorf the point is to make the rock bottom work, that you can acutally carry enough gas for the dive
7:42pmAndrew Georgitsis excatly. I find o2 to always make my deco feel better but from 160' to far
7:43pmDouglas Steding Yeah, agreed, the 25/25 and O2 thing is great--that actually fills a gap I think people have in current training too. The 100-130 longish dives are sorta tweeners that didn't get dealt with much before.
7:43pmJames Garrett James-- sorry to reference back to a few min ago (I just caught up) but what broke me of using a computer was the fact that our ENTIRE team was on different deco schedules.
7:43pmAndrew Georgitsis excatly tech 1
7:43pmJeff Seckendorf We put that in so there's a gap between tech 1 and tech 2 and you can actually go out and practice, buy the gas, etc.
7:43pmAndrew Georgitsis see we use to talk about it but ever teach it now we do]
7:43pmAndrew Georgitsis same as stage use
7:44pmAndrew Georgitsis we always talked about the abilty to but we never taught it
7:44pmDouglas Steding Another good improvement.
7:44pmRoger Bly stages are key
7:44pmAndrew Georgitsis I do two dives a day in the 150 range and 1 set of backgas and 1 stage
7:44pmRainer Agreed. Was certainly short-changed in T1.
7:44pmJames Mott Yeah James, That would make things pretty confusing. Gott get the rest of your team on board with ratio.
7:44pmAndrew Georgitsis So we need to push the class forward towards the way we actually dive
7:44pmRoger Bly key for our little boats here
7:44pmDouglas Steding And ours, we're doing an expedition up north where there is no way we can bring enough sets of doubles for the weekend
7:45pmAndrew Georgitsis excatly Danny always wants to go back to get second set of doule yawn
7:45pmJames Garrett Yeah, it's certainly confusing. I'm unfamiliar in the way that UTD does ratio (32% is the most relevant to FL cave diving), but would be interested to learn.
7:45pmAndrew Georgitsis florida is perfect enviroment for 25/25
7:45pmJeff Seckendorf adding a stage also adds to the complication in tech 2 by adding a stage without the chance of switching to the wrong gas
7:45pmAndrew Georgitsis helium will improve not only the narcosis but the work of breathing
7:45pmJeff Seckendorf as prep for trimix...two deco bottles
7:45pmAndrew Georgitsis fighting those current at depth can build hige co2
7:46pmJames Garrett Andrew-- to be honest I've never gone as far as trimix. All of my deco training has been with nitrox mixes <100ft depths
7:46pmSteve Schafer k
7:46pmAndrew Georgitsis good then use the setpoint of 100' with o2 for deco
7:47pmRoger Bly when adding the stage, still have to watchout for decending on the deco gas by mistake
7:47pmAndrew Georgitsis truthfully ginnie on 25/25 is a different dve
7:47pmJames Garrett I've heard that. For some reason I notice I'm narc'ed slightly at little river, yet never feel it at ginnie (which means nothing)
7:47pmJames Mott Even if all your team is diving 32%, but your on ratio deco, one guys using a Suunto Vyper and another is using his PADI Enriched Air RDP, that really throws a wrench into the "team" ascent strategy.
7:47pmAndrew Georgitsis Yes little river again great cave to use the right gas in
7:48pmAndrew Georgitsis I would do 25/25 and o2 for deco
7:48pmAndrew Georgitsis Simply take your time over MDL + Min Deco and the half the 20' segment
7:49pmJames Garrett I believe that's similar to how it's being done around here. How are you guys factoring in 2nd or 3rd dives for the day?
7:49pmJeff Seckendorf Again, these are dives where the rock bottom allows O2...
7:49pmAndrew Georgitsis 60 min of sit means do it again
7:50pmAndrew Georgitsis less than 60 mins means double the shallow stops
7:50pmJeff Seckendorf Once we move into the 150' range, the O2 bottle gets too far away for the amount of gas we can carry
7:51pmKirk Hamblen were all different though, everyone might not feel great doing that profile?
7:51pmAndrew Georgitsis Actually kirk the setpoint are super conservative
7:51pmAndrew Georgitsis but you are right
7:52pmDuane Johnson I do have a question about estimating CNS %
7:52pmAndrew Georgitsis people are different and therefore you should always choose you deco based onyour team consent
7:52pmSteve Schafer Any Expedition RB courses on the horizon? Beyond 400' ?
7:52pmKirk Hamblen Right you are but if you didnt get the sleep you needed or maybe have other issues?
7:52pmAndrew Georgitsis One of the reasons i don't promote computer or table deco
7:52pmJeff Seckendorf I think we all look at how we feel after a dive...I almost always feel better after longer shallow stops
7:52pmAndrew Georgitsis Estimating CNS will put on the board 1 sec
7:53pmAndrew Georgitsis Yeap. Mexico in Novemeber
7:53pmTobias Enhus Btw, Andrew, NDL and 1:1 does not come out to the same times, 100 ft EAN32 50min = 20 min deco on NDL+, 1:1 = 25 min on 25/25. How come the penalty on using 25/25?
7:53pmAndrew Georgitsis RB 400'
7:53pmAndrew Georgitsis You in
7:54pmJeff Seckendorf CNS questions are next...
7:54pmDouglas Steding Interesting Jeff, I find I feel better if I put my time in at 20 and then do a slow ascent, instead of splitting things between 20 and 10
7:54pmTobias Enhus sorry to bash in mid questions here
7:54pmDuane Johnson If using 25/25, can we still estimate CNS % by multiplying BT by 2 as with 21/35 or 18/45?
7:54pmAndrew Georgitsis Duane
7:54pmSteve Schafer Yes
7:54pmDouglas Steding Tobias, you have to add your minimum deco time too
7:54pmAndrew Georgitsis So we use the rules to estimate cns because we try to average over PPO at 1.2
7:55pmAndrew Georgitsis Reality is the cns clock stuff is nonesense
7:55pmAndrew Georgitsis The times and tabel are garabe
7:55pmTobias Enhus ah, yes yes
7:55pmChad Brunner thank you!!!
7:55pmAndrew Georgitsis garbage so in reality we are simply excersing for the sake of it
7:55pmAndrew Georgitsis They simply pulled the CNS clock out of thin air not a shred of evidence
7:56pmAndrew Georgitsis Soooooo that being said we use the mulitplier as an excercise to stay within accept industry standards while taking classes
7:56pmDuane Johnson So tracking CNS exposure isn't part of the UTD ciricullum?
7:56pmKirk Hamblen Still its taught in all classes?
7:56pmAndrew Georgitsis James Can we chat privately later
7:57pmAndrew Georgitsis I can't jump out of this main chat room till we finsih
7:57pmJames Garrett sure Andrew, sorry about that.
7:57pmJames Mott Give me a call
7:57pmAndrew Georgitsis Not you james Mott I dont even like you
7:57pmJames Mott Don't call me then
7:57pmAndrew Georgitsis :-X
7:58pmJeff Seckendorf Yes, we still teach CNS limits, but with the standard gas and an average PO2 of 1.2, it's really simple
7:58pmChad Brunner no one likes james
7:58pmJeff Seckendorf half the run time and twice the o2 time...really a no brainer to keep track of
7:58pmJeff Seckendorf and the limits are so far away from what we normally dive in a day or two of tech 1, it's kind of moot
7:58pmJeff Seckendorf Other questions?
7:59pmDouglas Steding Uh, err, CCR?
7:59pmDuane Johnson Thanks
7:59pmJames Mott Duane, we teach how to do it in the class, but also explain how its a bogus number too.
7:59pmDouglas Steding (I'm being a pain, I know)
7:59pmAndrew Georgitsis No no fire away
7:59pmJeff Seckendorf We'll do all the private chats at 8:30, in half an hour
8:00pmDouglas Steding Okay, seriously, at what point would you consider one? If ever?
8:00pmTobias Enhus yes, in the NDL table it says you can half your 20segment if you use O2
8:00pmAndrew Georgitsis CCR class
8:00pmDouglas Steding Yes.
8:00pmJeff Seckendorf Tobias, you're next
8:00pmMaciej Arkuszewski Think about proper bailout Doug
8:00pmTobias Enhus coming back to the difference between 1:1 and NDL +
8:00pmMaciej Arkuszewski it reallyis not that much less than your regular deco gas for the ocean situations
8:00pmAndrew Georgitsis We are evaluating it as we speak.
8:00pmAndrew Georgitsis CCR class that is
8:01pmTobias Enhus if i use my O2 credit i still end up with less deco time than using 1;1 and 25 25
8:01pmDouglas Steding Interesting Andrew, because at some point maybe they get reliable enough.
8:01pmTobias Enhus compared to EAN32 and NDL+
8:01pmJeff Seckendorf We'll write down the protocol for 25/25, 1:1, O2, all that, and get it as a very clear document, then let everyone have time to read it, then we'll do another chat on that subject
8:02pmAndrew Georgitsis I think that the initial release of CCR into the market was not neccessarily the machine that was terrible bit the training and understand of the pitfalls
8:02pmAndrew Georgitsis I think that the manufacturers needed instructors to teach classes to sell units
8:02pmAndrew Georgitsis so instructor were made quickly
8:02pmDouglas Steding This is interesting . . .
8:03pmAndrew Georgitsis There certainly have been some improvements in the machine but in reailty it still bols down to the training
8:03pmAndrew Georgitsis Here the stick int he mud
8:03pmAndrew Georgitsis To dive it safely we need to carry OC bailout right
8:03pmRoger Bly there is interest in a UTD-CCR procedures course in San Diego... it would really help us put together some joint charters with the CCR guys
8:03pmAndrew Georgitsis That bailout is needs to get you home
8:04pmAndrew Georgitsis That means that you need to not only have gas to exit but gas to deco
8:04pmJames Garrett If rebreathers were to prove solid for a period of time, I would consider one for cave diving. I can't help but think in a collapse they could benefit the diver. But for now, the CCR scares me more than a collapse or siltout.
8:04pmRoger Bly I won't touch a CCR, but it would be nice to see the guy on the boat with reasonable bailout....rather than a 40cf at 250'
8:04pmAndrew Georgitsis So in a ow situation that is less backgas than normal but the same deco gas volumes rght
8:04pmAndrew Georgitsis So in reailty in OW you end up with the same amount of shit plus an RB
8:05pmDouglas Steding Sure, you'd need enough bottom mix to "bail" and enough deco gas to do the deco.
8:05pmRoger Bly UTD, It seems you have a good market opp to teach DIR/UTD rebreather procedures
8:05pmAndrew Georgitsis Now in cave we can get some advantage because we can stage safeties and then of course you are not carrying everything
8:05pmDouglas Steding What scares me about bailout on a CCR with multiple bottles is you're compromised mentally and now making a gas switch
8:06pmAndrew Georgitsis yes and no
8:06pmDouglas Steding How no? Most likely CO2, right?
8:06pmAndrew Georgitsis Menaing if you moun tthe bailout to the rb loop and and attach it to the deepest breathing mix then you are always assured by flipping the lever you are on a breathable low o2 high he mix
8:07pmAndrew Georgitsis so that means any co2 or PPO issues can be potentially resolved
8:07pmAndrew Georgitsis Well the reason for bailout is high o2 lo o2 or co2
8:07pmAndrew Georgitsis Problem is you have to recongize t
8:07pmAndrew Georgitsis so lo o2 not a chance
8:08pmAndrew Georgitsis Hi o2 ok the gauges
8:08pmAndrew Georgitsis co2 for sure but you have to get over the ego thing
8:08pmAndrew Georgitsis But you are right once you bail then you want to be on the lowest o2 and highest he
8:08pmDouglas Steding So, is this a BOV thing then? Is that what you mean?
8:09pmAndrew Georgitsis he for narcosis and work of breating co2 loading
8:09pmAndrew Georgitsis o2 obvoius
8:09pmAndrew Georgitsis I love all the acronyms you guys come up with
8:10pmDouglas Steding bailout valve? I read Rebreather World.
8:10pmJeff Seckendorf Next??
8:10pmKirk Hamblen I'd like to ask a question on training literature
8:10pmAndrew Georgitsis a little to much boviously
8:10pmAndrew Georgitsis ok fire in the hole it kirk
8:10pmDouglas Steding >=-)
8:10pmKirk Hamblen As you know I revied the Trimix pdf and made some suggestions
8:11pmAndrew Georgitsis yes
8:11pmAndrew Georgitsis I got em
8:11pmKirk Hamblen I'm still somewhat interested in dropping the SADDDD
8:11pmJames Mott Lets make it HAPPPPPY
8:11pmAndrew Georgitsis UTDEDGE
8:11pmAndrew Georgitsis :)
8:11pmKirk Hamblen UTD is WAY to upbeat to keep it...
8:12pmAndrew Georgitsis OK HAPPPPPY
8:12pmKirk Hamblen I like it!
8:12pmChad Brunner UTDDDD
8:12pmAndrew Georgitsis Unified
8:12pmAndrew Georgitsis team
8:12pmAndrew Georgitsis Distance
8:12pmAndrew Georgitsis depth deco duration
8:12pmJames Mott Direction
8:13pmDuane Johnson too late, I just fired off the trademark application. :)
8:13pmJeff Seckendorf what's the 'u'? any ideas?
8:13pmMaciej Arkuszewski unified
8:13pmKirk Hamblen Unified team: who leads, roles...
8:13pmRoger Bly AG, if we pull together a group of gue-tech2 divers for UTD Expedition work... what is the jist of course? Scooter, wreck, search, ???
8:13pmChad Brunner refer back to the top, copywrite is mine
8:14pmAndrew Georgitsis Seriouly though the materials are all integrated and one is built upon another and they are also independent.
8:14pmJeff Seckendorf UTDDDDD...another document we'll publish :)
8:14pmAndrew Georgitsis So ths menas that a change in the trimix prgram will affect 20 others.
8:14pmMaciej Arkuszewski another 16 pdfs and voiceovers to record :)
8:15pmJames Mott AG likes working on Powerpoints and PDF's
8:15pmAndrew Georgitsis So i have decided to accumlate all the changes and do a release all at once
8:15pmKirk Hamblen Its tough for sure but leaders never stop moving forward!
8:15pmJeff Seckendorf It's the cool part of the program, and relates back to the 1:1 conversation from earlier...
8:15pmJeff Seckendorf Once in the UTD curriculum, you shouldn't ever have to relearn anthing as you move thru
8:16pmAndrew Georgitsis Roger to answer your
8:16pmJeff Seckendorf Every builds on the next class, starting with rec 1
8:16pmRainer I have a question: what's the difference between Essentials and Intro to Tech? Would a diver coming to UTD need to do both before transitioning to Tech 1? Thanks.
8:16pmKirk Hamblen I'll tell ya just going over the new pdf helped me a lot; and I'm pretty slow...just ask Doug
8:17pmMark Gottfried Essentials for rec classes, intro to tech is for transition to techclasess
8:17pmChad Brunner that's SADDDD
8:17pmAndrew Georgitsis Yes Expedition Diver card was intened for the diver that can o Trimix levels dives, wreck and/or cave penetration and scooter at that level
8:17pmJeff Seckendorf Rainer...Essentials is for the recreational diver coming into the protocol, it's an introduction to the skills
8:18pmMaciej Arkuszewski once you over with the Dark Side, no more intro needed Rainer
8:18pmJeff Seckendorf Rainer...Intro to Tech is also a skills class, like a workshop, but at a higher level...doubles, single deco bottle, and hopefully tighter performance standards.
8:18pmJames Mott Is Roger thinking about doing an expedition that doesn't require full trimix?
8:19pmRoger Bly no, full trimix
8:19pmRainer Would a recreational diver therefore have to take both classes before going to T1?
8:19pmJeff Seckendorf Where as Essentials prepares someone coming from a Padi style class for our Rec 2/advanced or Rec 3/Helitrox, Intro to Tech is to prep someone for deeper...tech 1
8:19pmRoger Bly no big cave, but big wreck on scooters
8:19pmAndrew Georgitsis yes sorry ful trimix meaning trimix 1 and 2
8:19pmAndrew Georgitsis cave or wreck but at wreck level 2 AND CAVE LEVEL 2\
8:20pmJeff Seckendorf Rainer...no, not necessarily...you come into the program at you level, and the instructors will all do evaluation dives to help place someone.
8:20pmRainer Ok, makes sense. Thanks.
8:21pmRoger Bly AG, so for Expedition, folks like Mike Ready and I would probably need to do some scooter2 wreck2, then Expedition?
8:21pmAndrew Georgitsis scooter 2 wreck 2 for sure
8:21pmRainer Wait, how's Rec 2 different than Essentials? Class description looks the same (shooting a bag, kicks, basic 6, etc)?
8:21pmAndrew Georgitsis most important part is getting the dives done once you have the training]
8:22pmJeff Seckendorf Rainer...Rec 2 is a certification class (adds nitrox) and includes critical skill training, more gas planning for deeper depths (100'/30m), whereas essentials is personal and team skills only
8:23pmMaciej Arkuszewski Rec 2 assumes you have building block of Rec 1 in place, while Essentials is geared towards people who did their OW with someone else and are not privy to our procedures
8:24pmRainer So Rec 2 teaches nitrox. How is the gas planning different? What skills are added at Rec 2 and not Essentials? Sorry, so many new classes!
8:24pmJames Mott Essentials builds UTD thinking, the Rec2,3 classes further your UTD thinking.
8:24pmMaciej Arkuszewski If you started with Rec 1 there's no need to do essentials
8:24pmKirk Hamblen Is the class flow chart on the web site?
8:25pmMark Gottfried Yes
8:25pmJeff Seckendorf We add critical skills at level 2, whereas essentials is a level 1 demonstration class
8:25pmJeff Seckendorf Which means in Essentials, no surprises...we say, "now we'll airshare", then we do
8:25pmRainer Is Essentials a prereq for Rec 2?
8:25pmAndrew Georgitsis essentials and intro are 12 skills learning and demonstrating
8:26pmAndrew Georgitsis give or take 12
8:26pmMark Gottfried No Rainer, it is not a preriqusite
8:26pmRainer Perfect. Thanks, Mark.
8:26pmJeff Seckendorf In Rec 2, the level 2 critical skills start to come on as simple failures, so we add in the element of thinking..sussing out what the problem is and how to fix it.
8:26pmJeff Seckendorf In Rec 2, however, the critical skills don't compound...one at a time, so no mask off during an air share, etc.
8:27pmRainer But they would compund for ItT, correct?
8:27pmRainer ignore spelling...
8:27pmJeff Seckendorf No, not in ItT...that's a personal and teams skills class only
8:28pmMaciej Arkuszewski nope think of ITT as Essentials in different gear
8:28pmJeff Seckendorf Critical skills are taught in the certification classes - rec 2, rec 3, tech 1/2, trimix, etc
8:28pmRainer Thanks, Maciek.
8:28pmAndrew Georgitsis keep in mind the level of critical skill is different in trimix 2 than rec 2 lol
8:28pmJeff Seckendorf Yes, like maciej said. Those classes, Essentials and Intro to Tech are like workshops
8:29pmRainer This seemed easier when it was: OW->Fundies->Tech 1...
8:29pmRainer :)
8:29pmAndrew Georgitsis we turn up the >=-) when you move up
8:29pmJeff Seckendorf So, good, thank you all. Let's close this now.
8:29pmRainer Goodness, there's an 'evil' smiley.
8:29pmJeff Seckendorf We'll do this again next month
8:29pmJames Garrett awesome!
8:30pmJames Garrett thanks for your time guys
8:30pmKirk Hamblen that was a lot of fun!
8:30pmDuane Johnson Cool chat, learned a lot. thanks
8:30pmMark Gottfried thanks everybody
8:30pmJeff Seckendorf We'll archive the chat and post it in the forums
8:30pmAndrew Georgitsis Yes guys/gal thanks for the time
8:30pmJasonmh thank you
8:30pmJames Garrett thank you.
8:30pmJames Mott Thanks
8:30pmRainer Thanks.
8:30pmJeff Seckendorf I'll let you all know when it's up (tomorrow, or in three weeks if I fix the spelling)
8:30pmJames Garrett Andrew- could I ask you a question via private now?
8:30pmAndrew Georgitsis gracias
8:30pmJeff Seckendorf Chow
8:31pmRoger Bly bye
8:31pmAndrew Georgitsis yes james]