The Z System

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Permalink Reply by Unified Team Diving on December 2, 2010 at 7:38am

Jay

As you well know, there is no getting around the weight. "If" you require a total of 30lbs to sink in a drysuit and undergarment, then you will require 30lbs of weight to sink in a Z-System. That being said, the one benefit of diving a drysuit is that you are diving a balanced exposure system and therefore you don't really need any ditch-able weight, however if you choose to have a ditch-able weight, then it would be the weight of the air at the beginning of the dive which is 5lbs/2.2kg. Of course, not ditching it at the end of the dive, you would simply swim up.

Now, the second part of the question. Where to put it. We have several solutions and truthfully it is up to you. We have a soft "spine" weight that will fit between the two plates that takes about 11lbs/5kgs of lead shot, you can also thread normal block weights onto the spine webbing between the two plates. I easily fit 15lbs/7kgs using this method. Then, if I was diving a single tank - on my left side, I would offset it with a 5lb/2.2 weight on my right hip, of course the best is to dive a twin setup with a tank on either side :). Then if I need more, I would balance it threading the weight on the left and right hip webbing. Of you could always purchase the ditch-able weight pocket system (http://utdequipment.com/product_info.php?cPath=31_4_12&products...) we have and then integrate it into the Z-system to have weight pockets that you could fill with 15lbs/7kgs per side.

So, there are many many options for sure.

Andrew
BTW I realy need to do a video blog on this to help folks understand the system better.

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Permalink Reply by Jay Schier on December 2, 2010 at 10:26am

Thats great Andrew, pretty much as I predicted, but it's good to have confirmation. Now I just have to convert every diver I meet!

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Permalink Reply by Z-S on December 17, 2010 at 9:20pm

Andrew,

As I can see the core of the Z-system is the harness. As far as I know Steve bogaerts has developed it from his cave needs and dive philosophy. I know he was working on developing a lift device instead of the MSR that he use. Did you ventured together and developed the Z-system or did you only take the Razor idea and completed/ developed the missing parts?

I must say that the gas distribution solution implemented is the Z-system is genius. This is what I looked for in order to simplify what I have today when diving with 2 tanks. I dive OW with SM:ted BP ( mostely) and Razor sometimes (only summer when less lead needed) . E.g. 2 regs on my neck and 1 reg. on each tank. All together 4 2:nds.

 

I've found some more great benefits in the Z-system gas dist. solution. I can use any 1:st stage reg. now. Before in order to get it perfect I had to use regs that are built like the SP MK25.

Another benefit is that the tank on the left side does not have to be with left sided valve. I can use rented tanks freely.

 

With the Z-system I'm sure it will be easier to "convert" some of the BM divers for SM use. Also make the config. easier and with less dives before the diver fill comfort with the "new" gears.

And no it is not because it is "in" to dive SM, as some divers think.

 

I would gladly try a demo A.S.A.P if you will have one here in Israel.

 

Thanks for the Z-system.

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Permalink Reply by Unified Team Diving on December 18, 2010 at 9:15am

Zeev

 

After being part of this industry for over 20 years now, the interesting part is that we all learn from each other and either change, adapt, improve or "leap frog" an idea, configuration, philosophy or even diving ethos. I find it amusing to see how people always try to claim they "invented it" or "came up" with the idea first or were working on that very same thing or this or that person developed it. Each and every idea/configuration/philosophy and so on, has had some roots somewhere else and you can trace them. For example .. Steve B's Razor Harness was taken from Martyn Farr and MF's harness from his mentor and so on. Each design or improvement deserves credit within it's own right.

 

The Z-Harness is only one of the components to  Z-System and yes we looked at side-mount diving and divers for the best ideas. We adapted those into the the Z-System but had to ensure that we were able to improve/reconfigure/redesign things in order to meet our criteria of keeping it consistent within our UTD philosophy. We also needed to add additional items such as the trim device and gas distribution block.

 

As for the Z-Trim device we had to completely changed the way we think or thought in the past. The design of the Z-Trim device was completely from the ground up, we really had to walk away from the old ideas of a donut shape or horse shape "wing" that is sandwiched underneath a harness or backplate to prevent it from taco'ing. We had to design a shape that put the lift where we needed it, yet was streamlined enough for side-mount diving and ultimately did not TACO. I hate that about back-mounted wings when used in side mount diving.  We also had to step away from the idea of needing massive amounts of lift. In late 90's the "tech" community believed that we needed 100+ lbs of lift and dual bladders and so on. We fought that battle in the early 2000's and have since changed the community's mind and now it is common  to use a lift capacity of about 45/55 lbs. The next fight for us is to convince people that even the 45/55lbs is way too much. The next generation of wings are even smaller and more streamlined with even less lift capacity. Hence the Z-trim Device.

 

We intentionally called it a "Trim" device to get divers away from the idea that they can overweight themselves and then need a  buoyancy compensator to hold them off the bottom. If you are weighted properly and have the proper exposure system, then all you need is a small trim device to help pickup your feet up and put you in the proper trim, as well as float you on the surface when waiting to be picked up by the boat. So we had to really wrestle with this idea. In a traditional back mounted system and while on the surface we noticed that much of the lift from a traditional wing  is wasted as it is out of the water. We also noticed there is additional negative weight from the manifold and tanks that are exposed above water. If you eliminate these two issues, and put the lift device and tanks then all you really need to lift you out of the water while on the surface is about 20lbs/9kg of lift even when your tanks are full. Of course underwater or at the end of the dive, the lift device is not not really needed and is simply a feel safe. Of course while diving the trim device is just that a device to pick up your butt and put you in the perfect trim position. Something we love as not only cave divers but all divers love. Perfect trim.  :)

 

Of course the final components of the Z-System were taken from commercial diving -Z-Manifold distribution block - and our personal the experience with Rebreathers - Using QC6 wet-pluggable connectors. We have being diving rebreathers and specifically the PSCR's for past 10+ years and plugging in different gases for different portions of the dive was what was needed. We would plug in bottom gas for the bottom portion and then a variety of deco gases for the deco portion. So there really is nothing "new" to the idea, just simply rearranged the distribution block to meet our UTD/DIR configuration philosophy and of course removed the RB Canister :)

 

What is really so cool about the Z-System is that the UTD/DIR skills, procedures, ideology and diving philosophy that we have developed and dove for the last 15+ years, can now be  ported over to side-mount style diving when appropriate. We can now integrate into a team or a class a diver who is carrying the cylinders mounted on their side and yet remain consistent within that team or class. The largest benefit to the Z-System is that a side-mount diver can now be integrated into the established UTD/DIR community, or a UTD/DIR educational class or a UTD/DIR Team. Side-mount style diving is now a viable option for UTD/DIR divers.

 

Andrew

Zeev Schuster said:

Andrew,

As I can see the core of the Z-system is the harness. As far as I know Steve bogaerts has developed it from his cave needs and dive philosophy. I know he was working on developing a lift device instead of the MSR that he use. Did you ventured together and developed the Z-system or did you only take the Razor idea and completed/ developed the missing parts?

I must say that the gas distribution solution implemented is the Z-system is genius. This is what I looked for in order to simplify what I have today when diving with 2 tanks. I dive OW with SM:ted BP ( mostely) and Razor sometimes (only summer when less lead needed) . E.g. 2 regs on my neck and 1 reg. on each tank. All together 4 2:nds.

 

I've found some more great benefits in the Z-system gas dist. solution. I can use any 1:st stage reg. now. Before in order to get it perfect I had to use regs that are built like the SP MK25.

Another benefit is that the tank on the left side does not have to be with left sided valve. I can use rented tanks freely.

 

With the Z-system I'm sure it will be easier to "convert" some of the BM divers for SM use. Also make the config. easier and with less dives before the diver fill comfort with the "new" gears.

And no it is not because it is "in" to dive SM, as some divers think.

 

I would gladly try a demo A.S.A.P if you will have one here in Israel.

 

Thanks for the Z-system.

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Permalink Reply by Z-S on December 21, 2010 at 7:48am

Andrew,

 

Thanks for clarifying some of the diving industry history. About Steve's Razor I can only say it was my first time to see  it when he introduced it and he stands for being the inventor and developer of it. Maybe he also got the inspiration some where and maybe not. Martyn Farr's harness is not like the Razor abut they both share Martyn in there names and cave diving as main interests :-)

Still, I know Steve Martin Bogaerts (SMB) was about to develop a Buoyancy And Trim wing (BAT wing) with Tobin, and to me it was pretty clear that it had to be something like you  came up with in the Z-system. I don't know why it took him so long time with no ( officially) results yet, but I am glad you brought the Z-system.

 

It is OK to say that the inspiration came from some where. It does not make the solution bad because of that. On the contrary. If SMB would have patent on that it would be something else. Still I am not talking for him and not saying to you what to say. I am just glad that you did develop the Z-system, and would appreciate if we got a sample to Israel for try.

 

Speaking of equipment development and wings getting "tacoed", I have developed a SNOTA (Single NO Tank Adapter) to use for SM with BP and the regular wing that fits all single wings. It is a 8" PVC tube for pluming, that was cut to a third mounted instead of the STA to emulate the tank. With slots for tank bands so you can mix BM and SM or switch btwn  with ease. That way we could start diving SM with our regular BP. That I have never seen before and is completely my idea. On the SNOTA I have slots for weights too.

 

By the way, a while ago I have started ISMO ( Israeli Side-Mount Org.), to promote and share SM experience.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Dive Year to you all.

 

You know what I want for Christmas (Our Hanukkah) present ;-)

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